INT: So we talked about sports, and of course we talked about Y & R [THE YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS], and what it was like then, and what it’s like now. In my early interview with you, the only thing you actually even talked about in terms of aspiring to direct, or wanting to direct was related to daytime drama. 

DQ: Right. Well, it was... because I’d, you know… YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS was at a good creative impact time with me, too, by, you know, beginning as, you know, such a uplifting time for me, stage managing, it was a good creative time, it was a wonderful time, it was, you know, back when David Hasselhoff was on the show, and Wings Hauser, and Joe LaDue and I ended up being roommates for a while. So we were a real tight group, too, it was, it all came with that exclusivity, really working together, and then seeing each other socially, you know, after parties, and or otherwise. So it was a good time. Now, a part of what we get into here by me taking the staff job, remember the... some of the future opportunities had kinda diminished a little bit, and I did take the opportunity to go on staff, and thought, well I can get educated in lots of different genres here that I might not ordinarily get the opportunity to, which is what you do on staff. So, also, you know, giving up the opportunity to sometimes fulfill your dreams, sometimes to know that you need a steady job to support your family. You need to work, you need to support, you need to provide medical insurance, and dental insurance, and all of that sort of stuff. Sometimes, even though I, you know I had these little dreams to direct, and I used to, you know, direct talent tests, screen tests and so forth, with some Actors. It was as simple as cutting between two and featuring the person that you’re testing, so it wasn’t--but I got to do all that sort of stuff, which spurred me onto it. So, opportunities were beginning to open their doors, and I had a lot of the cast members on the show, really pitching me, without me making much of an effort, kind of pitching me to, and you know, a couple of the cameramen are saying, “You know, you got so and so looking to direct, you know, the best Director would be Doug, you know, blah blah blah.” I realized at the time, I was being pushed too hard. It’s like thank you guys, thank you guys, thank you very much. You know, don’t, don’t push it too hard because I think they’re gonna, they were meeting resistance here at this point. So I’m trying to play the fine line, plus still, maybe keep the door open for the opportunity. Now, you know, what’ll happen too is, you know, you become so valuable to them as a Stage Manager, or an AD [Associate Director], which I was doing at the time too, that wow they just can’t see you directing. They want, who’s gonna replace him, what’s gonna happen, so a little bit of that going on as well, as a door opening up. And so, what begins to happen is, you kinda have to start saying, “You know what, I’ve got a little bit of a career going here, I actually have some money in the bank, a little bit of savings now, and I can take care of my family and everybody,” and you really had to kinda push those dreams aside for quite some time, even not knowing what the future was gonna be, and if there are gonna be opportunities in the future, and you know, how will you present yourself? Well, you gotta have some bank, you have to have some money that’s gonna carry you through, because, just because you start doesn’t mean that you’re gonna maintain a career and so forth. So there was a lot of that, you know, that was playing on your mind and your heart, and your dreams. And where are you gonna--how far are you gonna take this, what are you gonna do?

DQ: I really, I got to a point, when, you know, I was gonna do some summer relief and so forth, and vacation time, which we call it, ‘cause we go five days a week on a soap. Not now, it’s four days. We cram in that one show over the course of four days, and if you’re doing BOLD AND BEAUTIFUL, which I did for years, it’s a half hour soap still on CBS. They are putting two shows together and cramming in weeks, and then taking four weeks off. That show never used to take time off; we worked every week, even though it was a half hour show, at least four days a week. It used to be for five, for years. Same with YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS today. It’s an hour show; it’s only four days a week now. So that extra day, they’re not paying for that stage, is where they’re saving their money. BOLD AND BEAUTIFUL still one of the number one soap, probably the number one soap in the world, in last I heard over a hundred countries, is, you know, it’s cutting back, it’s cutting its time, it’s, you know, not getting the top dollar that obviously daytime dramas used to get. You know, 15, 20 years ago when a lot of them were king. So, I had to gently sort of put that, my Directors dream, of course a feature film would’ve been, you know, the ultimate dream, to have directed a feature film... So I’ve had to let those dreams go, and I’m okay with it. You know, I supported my family, I’m a success, I was proud to be a great father, and my sons, and now grandkids, everybody’s doing great, ‘cause, you know, I put in the time. I didn’t take the chance at the wrong time, and then have to have my family suffer.

INT: I hear the passion in your voice about creating, so I think it’s probably a really good time to talk about ARCHIE BUNKER’S PLACE, and your role as a Stage Manager there, and the look of that show. Talk about first of all, how you wound up on ARCHIE BUNKER’S PLACE, and the real role you played in… 

DQ: Right, well I was doing the ROSE PARADE [TOURNAMENT OF ROSES PARADE], which I’d done about, I think about 12 years in a row with Barker [Bob Barker]. Barker, you know, being CBS’s really go-to guy when it came to doing a live events and shows, and… We actually had a variety show of sort, of sorts, with him that I recall. But, so I was doing the ROSE PARADE, and Charles Cappleman, who was the head of facilities at CBS for many, many years, came over, was sitting outside having lunch. And he came and said, “Well, what do you think about your new show?” I said, “What, what new show?” He goes, “Oh, they haven’t told you yet.” And I went, “You gotta tell me now.” You know. And he said, “Well, you’re gonna be taking over ARCHIE BUNKER’S PLACE.” I thought, oh fantastic, you know, ROSE PARADE, first of the year, you know, so I knew it was coming up in January. So I did, so it’s almost the second half of a season, you know, I take it over. So I’m, I get on the show, I’m learning all the elements, and certainly, as everybody knows, when you’re on a show, a television show, there’s the dynamics of people behind the scenes, and behind you, and there was, a lot of the production people felt that I shouldn’t be the First [First Stage Manager], and it should’ve been this other, you know, up and coming, yet so inexperienced Second [Second Stage Manager] that they wanted to be the First. And after he worked for me for a while as a Second, I thought how could they possibly think that this guy could be the first, I mean… Just, he just didn’t have the strength and the knowledge and experience to. Anyway, so, it was a lot of that, you know, had to watch your back a lot kind of thing on that show. And certainly the front part of that show was Carroll O’Connor and all the wonderful, wonderful cast of characters. So, about the first week, I… There’s a lot--Johnny’s [Johnny Carson] one of them, and you know, Dean Martin and so forth, but as a Stage Manager, certain people that you just tune into. I could be doing a scene, on a show, and I could sense across the stage, and there’s…Carroll O’Connor’s gonna be walking, well, you’re not gonna see him until he clears the set here, and you have what, three or four seconds, and then he’s heading back across to makeup. Every Thursday of taping, when we would come in, Thursday and Friday, I’d be doing a scene ahead of time, to give him a later call, just totally focusing on that scene, and I’d turn, and there he is, and we give each other that wave in the morning, and boom. I could’ve missed that turn by easily, five seconds; I never would’ve seen him. I saw him all the time. I’d wave to say hi, he’s waving to say, hi I’m here. You know, it was a great relationship when it came to that.

DQ: So in the first week now [on ARCHIE BUNKER’S PLACE], I’ve got, I’m under pressure, I’m the new guy. And I’m tuning into this, I mean Archie Bunker from ALL IN THE FAMILY, my gosh he’s, come on, is there anybody bigger, back in those days, than Carroll O’Connor? And so he’s doing one of those, sort of a tag at the end of the show, and he’s got his cigar, he’s about to light it with a stick match. Remember the old matchsticks? And so he lights it, and says, “Yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s you and me Lord, huh?” And he starts to light this, and I’m standing off to the side of the camera and I go, and he goes, and everybody laughs. All he does is we give each other a wink at that moment. He got it, he got the laugh, it came from me. He and I know it. Wonderful times. So a lot of the people now in the background, that see this, go, okay, well, Doug is the guy. He is the guy to be here. So from that point on, there had to be a voiceover, and I should probably check with AFTRA [SAG-AFTRA] about this, I’m sure I have a lot of residuals somewhere. I was, “Well okay, compadre.” I’d be John Wayne, while he’d be watching TV, I’d be some announcer on the show, and Carroll would say, “Well Doug can do it, let Doug record that,” throwing this lovely gift to me. So it was great. So now, we get into Archie Bunker’s Place, which is a local bar in Astoria, in New York. So I get, you know all these extras, and pretty much a little bit in the house, shoot the show a little bit in the house, and the rest is, you know, at the bar, with all his cast of characters, and atmosphere and extras. So we did, I did that week’s show, and everything was great, and now we’re into the next week’s show, and casting gives me an entire new set of people. So, I started thinking, you know, having never hung out in a bar before, I thought, you know, there’s regulars, this is a neighborhood kind of bar, this is not on a busy street someplace, this is a neighborhood kinda bar. I kinda pictured that Archie Bunker could walk to work if he wanted to. I mean, he’s not gonna be far from this on Hauser Street where his house is, lives. So I started thinking, you know, you gotta have some locals. Besides the local cast members that are on the show, that are usually at the bar, or sitting and talking--Marty Balsam [Martin Balsam] was, you know, the first season, was his partner on the show, so oh my gosh, you know, HOMBRE. You know, Paul Newman and Martin Balsam I mean, so to work with him was just fantastic.

DQ: I started thinking about this atmosphere thing in the bar [on ARCHIE BUNKER’S PLACE], and so now I’ve got everybody’s phone number, you know, of the atmosphere and the extras, which I make sure I have their list. And if somebody’s late or I can get a hold of them, or I can call them in early, I can do, you know, I have a way to get a hold of them. So I took it upon myself, and Joe Gannon and Gary Shimokawa may not even know this. Gary was directing, you know, a lot of the shows back then. I called up Casting Director, and I said, “Could I ask you, I have like five people, if I could bring back this week.” They said, “Oh sure.” I said, “I have their phone numbers.” So I give them their phone numbers, and then I get everybody else new, and mix in these five, beginning to be a little bit more familiar faces. And then the next week I’d call, not asking permission, really, just kinda subtly doing it on my own, “I’ve got the name of five more people, or six or seven,” whatever I was, and then I would start mixing and matching some of these people. So they were back two weeks in a row, or off a week, or they were back, you know, once, and then every other week, and I started mixing and match… Well, and then the cast would start looking, and Carroll, and so forth, and goes, “Hey, you’re back again,” and you know there’s a familiarity here, and now, to me, this is what I felt it should feel like. A local bar, and Archie would recognize his regulars, besides his, you know, principles at the bar. So I began to really mix and match. I had beautiful, beautiful times with the show, because, you know, the front door was so far upstage, and, you know, most of everything’s gonna take place downstage for camera angles and so forth. And I’d bring them in in rain, and snow, it’s New York, you know what I’m saying to you? It gets cold out there, you know. I just make sure they made, get all that fake snow off before they came down. I was good at saying, “Take your… it’s alright to shake off the snow, shake it off.” And so I’d bring them in slowly, and I’d have, and the other reason I brought a lot of these people back is because the atmosphere that I’m talking about, we’re pros. They've been doing this. This is their career, this is their life. They’re looking for the bump up, and a line or two throughout, you know, the opportunity to be an extra on a show and so forth, but I’m telling you, you ask them to do something, they knew the dialect, the jargon, they knew everything. They could, you could direct them. It wasn’t like somebody brand new that’s a friend of somebody who got in, who’s just kinda going… You have to know what you’re doing as a professional, and you’re just, not just, but you are atmosphere and background. Feature films today are huge with that, so important. These are the people I’m asking back: all characters, different folks, mixing and matching. And being from New York always gave them an attitude, you know what I’m sayin’? I gave them attitude when they came in. I said, “Look hey, you got one hour for your lunch, so when you start waving for it to get here, I want a serious, ‘Hey,’ I want a serious wave, I’m gonna see it in this shot over here.” And I would describe to them, that, you know, I’d start giving them an attitude when I said hello to them in the morning, you know what I’m saying? So, sort of set the tone. I remember him coming in the door, and I’m picking him up crossing over in this shot, and I told him to wait a beat, and you’re deciding, I don’t see your faces, but you’re gonna…and then you’re gonna take this, and then you’re gonna walk over here. So I see them go through this shot, into that shot, across that shot, and then a wide shot, all sitting at a table. I love that, sort of, I used to call it s-curves, nothing was, you know, dink, dink, dink. It was all nice and smooth, so you could bring people down. Wonderful, creative time.

DQ: Some of the atmosphere extras [on ARCHIE BUNKER’S PLACE], you know, I know when Carroll’s [Carroll O’Conner] gonna walk by and go, “Hey what’re you lookin’ at?” you know. I’d put the right person there, that’s gonna give the right expression of the face. You know, knowing also, they get a bump in pay because they’re principles. So I thank them that way by trying to get them in. So, you know, in a position to get a little extra money. So now his niece, Archie’s niece, is a waitress in the bar. And so there’s principle, you know, obviously, an entire scene. And so I look at this scene, and these people have an hour for lunch, they’re gonna have to get back to work, to their taxi, construction site, wherever they might be working. There’s nobody in the background of these shots at the end of a bar, seeing all, the rest of the bar. There’s nobody. You know, I might have somebody up playing, faking like they’re playing a pinball machine, and doing all that sort of stuff, but can’t hear it, so they have to fake it, you know, noise wise, so we can edit. So, you know, I’ve got all that, but there’s no waitress. And so we finish the scene, and I do get a hold of, you know, Joe [Joe Gannon] and Gary [Gary Shimokawa], and say, you know, I said, “Listen, it’s not a big deal, but let me just tell you what kind of bothered me a little bit in that shot.” They said, “All right, what is it?” I said, “Remember when we were crossing, and imagine look, there’s an entire sea of people there that have to have lunch, this is the lunch crowd. And there’s nobody taking care of them. There’s no extra waiter or waitress back there, and you know what would happen in New York? ‘Hey, where’s the service around here? Can’t even get a beer?’” you know? All of that would’ve been coming out out of New York. And then this is, you know, blue collar here, come on! So I said, “You just need, we just need a waitress, just workin’ it. Delivering food--I can have that food set up, we’ll have everything, we’ll get the prop, we’ll get the food set up, and start delivering if there’s a big long scene here that Denise [Denise Miller] has to be involved in.” “Doug, oh my gosh, that’s a great idea. Who should we get?” I said, “I have somebody.” So here was this wonderful girl who had, you know, just dying to be an actress, and professional in every way. Attractive, you know, you kinda think, you know, you don’t want them too attractive to upstage maybe some of the principles and so forth, so you kinda have to think a little bit about that and so forth. I said, “I do.” They said, “Okay, great.” Called her in, had her working the tables while whatever scene, so whenever our principal actress would walk, she’d be in the background, you know, working, point of view of the camera, so, we had all that. Next thing you know, she’s so well liked, and doing such a great job, just a pro, next thing I know, she’s got five lines. Next thing you know, she’s got three lines. Next show, she’s got two or three pages of dialogue. So the two girls can talk. There’s things going on--so this person, who, little did she know that I recognized her professionalism and so forth, is now beginning to pay off.

DQ: And while I love doing that, and being a part of that creativity, and having what many Stage Managers don’t have today, is that power. And I use the word power, input, influence, and so forth that, you know, we were respected so well in some of those earlier days, that we were the guy taking the respon--we were the guy making the decisions, and many of our decisions are on the spot, spontaneous, “Go, go, now, now, do this, blah, blah, blah. Wait, wait, wait, set it now.” All those in the moment decisions, which for the most part, were right, because it’s instinct and feeling and we’re on the stage, we’re on the set, we’re in the moment as well, work for us in some of those old… It’s not that it doesn’t work today, and I’m sure Spencer [Spencer Emmons] on IDOL [AMERICAN IDOL] has found all of his moments where he’s in the moment, and he’s making those quick decisions, but back when I talk about casting, and you know, I made every taping schedule, I, every call, knew everybody, and adjusted it so Carroll [Carroll O’Conner] could come in late, and be comfortable, so everything could get done in such a nice, smooth, wonderful way. You know, I’m sure a lot of guys do a lot of that stuff, but sometimes we don’t have the opportunity to express our creativeness in a show. On a show, around a show, for a show. You know, sometimes we’re just going, “Da, da, da, we gotta go, go, go,” that, “Oh, there’s a great thing we could’ve done,” eh, I’m not even gonna have time to mention that, and off you go in rehearsal, or you get ready for air, or you just don’t have the time sometimes in today’s fast world to… In television, and the genre--the soaps I’m talking about, which is declining. Long staple of networks, for just decades, have had soap operas, and as that declines, and something new comes on, and something non-union comes on, and you know, all of the young kids that are around, just… The strength comes from our years of experience, the strength comes from our confidence of being here, the strength comes from, you know… I remember when I was throwing out ideas with Dick Van Dyke show [VAN DYKE AND COMPANY], and so forth, I was throwing out, that I reached a point where, not only did I love the creativity, I loved the fact that, “Listen, I’ll throw this out, if you don’t like it, it’s not gonna…whatever, it doesn’t matter if you don’t like it, or like it, or love it, it doesn’t matter, just get...” it’ll kick off another thought, and then a response from that, and boom, boom, boom, ah, now we have a new idea. You know, that everybody’s on the same page. So, there aren’t opportunities to, sometimes throw out things. And once I kinda removed my ego from it, and just thought from a creative sense of the word, in the moment kind of sense of the word, that at least I was heard. And I had ideas, and I know you do. We all have these moments. I just don’t see them as much today, as we used to have back in the day. We had strength, we had input, and that’s what I miss the most…all of that creativity.

INT: You certainly expressed that experience with ARCHIE BUNKER’S PLACE, of…I’m not sure how many sitcoms, although you talked about Redd Foxx, and some others. Any others come to mind that, I mean, I don’t think there’s anything to match that experience, of ARCHIE BUNKER’S PLACE, but… 

DQ: Right. [INT: Any, any--] Well, and it was a culmination--the reason I could get to, I got to that point was, as you’ve heard a lot of the background, but don’t forget on staff at CBS, I did 22 or 24 sitcom pilots. And game show pilots, I did 20, I don’t know, 22 or something, 24. I did talk show pilots; we did talk show pilots back in the day. You know, bring in the stars, and you wanna see the personality of that host… Gordon Elliott I guess, the Aussie that was really hot for a while, there was a lot of those sorts of things. So, the strength of being able to work with an Archie Bunker comes from all the years of having been around him, having read all of those scripts, having prepped the scripts, and gone through, and you know. You know, today, you know, a lot of shows you can go on and go, here’s your prop list, here’s all this, which was done by a production staff, I used to do all that. I made out the prop list. You know, I’d write it out by hand, and hand it to my prop man, this is what you do, and I’d have it all in the margin of my scripts, in a different color pencil, and you know, asterisk, oh my gosh don’t forget this one. This is, you know, the most important prop in this scene, you know, to highlight all of that. Now you can come in sometimes, and somebody’s gone through those scripts, and here’s the prop list, here’s this. Here’s a little lighting note, it needs to be up, and then we’re gonna bring it down, and so forth, whereas I used to translate all that.

INT: The other thing, and tell me if I’m wrong about this, but being at a place like CBS TV City, you and all the other departments were kind of families. You had, you could trust each other. You really were like a big rep company in a way, am I right about that? 

DQ: Exactly right. And not only, I…really, and know I’ve been there for a long time, but seriously, I think a lot of people in town will say that everybody knew the quality of the work at CBS. It was from cameras, you know, boom, bum, lighting, dink, dank, stage managers, all of us were quality work. And I think a lot of people came to CBS to, you know, kick off a pilot and do that. Well, what is the advantage of having a person like me at a CBS network venue, being a staff person? You need drapery? Oh, call 2060. You need make up? That’s 2167, and you know, I know the numbers to call, and the places to get, and who to call. Or I will know who’s assigned to this show, who’s the scenic artist who’s assigned to this show. I’ll know all those people, whereas, if I was to bounce in like I did for a while with…THREE’S COMPANY, I think there was some sort of 33 strike and we worked at Metromedia for a while--I don’t know anybody over there! I’m Stage Manager, where’s, where do I, who’s the head of engineering, who’s the… I don’t, I didn’t have all those contacts. And the people that would come in, and I’d had a few discussions, and tell them, I said, “Look, I’ve got every, whatever you need, I could make a phone call and deliver it for you. You know, from a production standpoint, or if this could be, or how much would it cost if, and blah blah blah, I know the person to speak to, I can get a hold of them.” That was the great in house sort of thing, which was, like after motion pictures, and having all your staff people at MGM [Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer] from, you know, from wardrobe to Voice Coaches to Directors, Screenwriters, Producers and stars, we had a little bit of that in the technical aspect of television. We had the staff. We had all of us that were on staff that go back to live television, these cameramen I’m talking about. [INT: You still do. And I think it’s probably the, maybe the only place in the country that still does. Maybe New York, maybe there’s some still at 30 Rock. But it’s not a small thing. And you’re enlightening--] Well, good. I’m glad to hear that. [INT:--and reminding me, even of this, about that unique situation at CBS that goes.] It was a place of pride, let me tell you. It was, you were proud, still am. It’s a prideful place, although, nobody remembers anymore, but me, I’m the only one. That has all of that at our fingertips back in the day. And that’s why they came, and, they would come of course to shoot because it was videotape, and live. Sold, and it’s going to Paramount, Warner Bros., wherever, where they’re gonna shoot the four camera film. You know, but they shoot the pilot, that’s why we did so many pilots. Last year, game shows came through, I think I did five game show pilots, all just as cute and wonderful as the next, and you wonder how they’re gonna fit in. We used to have a game show from 9 to 9:30, 9:30 to 10, leading into THE PRICE IS RIGHT. Okay, for years. And then let into THE YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS, and THE BOLD AND THE BEAUTIFUL for 26 years, CBS Daytime has been number one. For all of those years, and it’s because--it’s these old shows that were created oh so many years ago, that, like PRICE IS RIGHT, YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS, BOLD AND THE BEAUTIFUL, that are reaching, you know, long term status. Still rating at number one.

INT: In the middle of this conversation, Doug, you brought up a talk show. And I know you wanted to talk a little bit about Mike Douglas, THE MIKE DOUGLAS SHOW. So, tell me your relationship with that show. 

DQ: You know, today, we have digital cameras that, you know, we’ve got a cell phone. Right? I can take a picture. Back in those days you didn’t have it. And when all the stars would come through, and you’d just go, “Oh my god, it’s Jimmy Stewart.” Again I’d met, you know, many years before on THE DEAN MARTIN SHOW, or Johnny Carson, as a page. And here they come, they’re guest starring, and it’s, you know, they’re on the talk shows. You know, Mike’s show, a lot of people--well, as you know, back in the day, even Johnny [THE TONIGHT SHOW STARRING JOHNNY CARSON] was an hour and a half show. MERV GRIFFIN [THE MERV GRIFFIN SHOW] was an hour and a half. MIKE DOUGLAS was an hour and a half; it was a 90-minute show. So by the time you did two of those, three days a week, you know, you felt it by Wednesday. You’d been on the go good, somebody’s a little late, somebody’s behind, you have to change the sequence of people coming out, and you know there’d be changes that have to be made on the fly on that show. But, the neat thing about it was, Mike would have a co-host. Okay, and that co-host would be with him for all five shows. So if it’s Jimmy Stewart, they would have, you know, the opening segment with a wonderful plan, a number of questions that he could talk about things from back in, when, you know, played Glenn Miller, or whatever, and you know, all those wonderful times. “How was it to work with June Allyson, and blah, blah, blah,” and all those things that… You really got to know that person from THE MIKE DOUGLAS SHOW. So it wasn’t just a guest, “Hi, thanks very much, and we’ll see you in the next feature you’ve made,” and you’ve come to promote it or whatever it might be. Mike would keep those, you know. So, I look at some, back at some of those, and think about, gosh, I wish I’d had an instamatic camera back then, just to take the flash off and capture what’s happening.

DQ: So years ago, I’m watching this young upstart that, you know, has a club in his hand, and he starts to win all these major golf tournaments. And they’re flashing back to when Tiger Woods was five years old, okay. And so I saw this clip, it’s THE MIKE DOUGLAS SHOW. There’s Bob Hope, there’s Jimmy Stewart, “Oh yeah, I re--but I don’t remember the kid. I don’t remember…” he’s five years old, Tiger. But I saw the set, and I went yeah, that’s West Coast, it’s not out of Philadelphia. I was there, but…I remember Bob Hope and Jimmy Stewart. And of course, Mike talking, getting right down and talking to the kid, and there he is, five years old. And Hope of course, who, you know, played golf for quite a while, and that was his prop, was, you know, an iron, or wood or something. So I remember when Tiger just, we let him just tee the ball up, and hit it into the cyc [cyclorama] way in the back. You know, and the host was thinking, all right, I got five bucks on the kid, you know, he’s, he’s going… So, I look back at those days and go, oh yeah, oh yeah. I remember now. ‘Cause so many of these things, I’ve forgotten. So now one day, this is when it happened. I’m looking at, you know, the show that’s coming on next week, and it’s Sophia Loren. I’m just going, oh, my god, who wasn’t in love with her back when we were, you know, young, young men, you know, and so forth. And, so Sophia is gonna be on the show. So, some opportunities that I’ve looked for that people who have inspired me in one way or another, or that you’re attracted to, or you appreciate, or you respect their talent, you know, it falls into many areas. Well, so, I being the First [First Stage Manager] on the show, I get a hold of the shopper, and say, “I need one long red, long stem rose, please.” So they go out, buy the rose. And Andy Lee [Andrew Lee], who I’ve now trained as my Second [Second Stage Manager], who was so inexperienced when he started, he’s directing now, he’s directing YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS, been directing soaps for a long time, he was my, trained him early. I think it was his second day ever in a Guild [DGA] job when I said, “Okay yeah, he’ll be good.” So then the strength of the, you know, “Okay?” “It’s okay.” “Okay.” So I told him, I said, “You’re gonna come out for this segment, you’re gonna stand right here,” okay, ‘cause he’s usually backstage getting the talent out. “Right here, and just keep an eye on Mike. If he needs anything, stay focused, and listen to what he’s saying, if he needs something, you gotta be able to get it, or, you know, be on your toes,” said Lawrence Welk. So anyway, so, Sophia’s finished cooking, you know, we got her pasta, and we had a special time with her and all that sort of stuff. So she’s now going, “Thank you.” “Sophia Loren everybody,” yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s great. So I get him up, we start the next sequence, you know, “Five, four, three, two, fly, here we go,” okay, Mike. “Andy come here,” I go get the long stem rose. [KNOCKING] “Come in, come in.” So I said, “Sophia, it’s Doug, the Stage Manager.” “Come in, darling, come in.” She’s in a skirt hiked up to here, cross-legged, sitting on the floor, eating her pasta, watching the rest of THE MIKE DOUGLAS SHOW. “Come in darling, want some pasta?” And she sees the rose, “Aww, this is so nice.” I said, “Ah, you’re so nice,” whatever I said, I don’t remember. So she said, “This is so nice.” I said, “I just wanna thank you on the show of,” you know, whatever I said, “I’ve been in love with you all my life,” or whatever I admitted to, I forgot. But she said, “Have some pasta, sit here, get a plate, get a plate, then come here and sit, we’ll watch the rest of the show.” I said, “A little bit, I’ll get a little bit.” So, we sit there for, you know, 30 seconds while I wolf this down, knowing I’ve gotta get back out for the next segment, but those are the wonderful kind of things that we could do as a Stage Manager back then, and give respect where it was due, and… There was so many times I wish I had, you know, been able to get a picture with her, or get a picture with Jimmy Stewart, or, you know, the biggest stars in the world were on those shows, and around that time. ‘Cause they were still around, they were still around.

INT: Talk about Willie, just in general, Willie Dahl. 

DQ: Yeah Willie Dahl was a, he was CBS when it came to Stage Managers really. He was a consummate professional all the way to the end, okay. You know, for example, there would be a time when I’d have to take a, or he would, would be in a rehearsal hall a lot back in the day, whether it be Carol Burnett, or whatever the sketch is, and you know, you’re running lines, and you know, and all the rest of the stuff that, you know, for a sketch. You went through the format of the show, and so forth. Well some, even THE YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS, when I’d have to have that evening read through of the script, they wanted to get it up on stage--pardon me. ARCHIE BUNKER’S PLACE, for example, or sitcoms, you know, we’re in a rehearsal hall for a while. And to do that, there was something that doesn’t exist anymore, there used to be a board, about this thick, and it would be 15 feet long, and painted in enamel white. And then a black paint all the way around it, for one, two, three four, and they were foot markers. And every Stage Manager had these, or at the network, we knew where they were, ‘cause when we had to go up, we’d have the schematic of the set, and we would lay it out in tape. Okay. And a door would come down, we’d run the tape out over here, and three feet later, you continue it here. You had the walls, it would come, you taped it off, and then every set would be in a different color of tape. Well you kicked this big stick around, which gave you all of your dimensions. So if a wall was 20 feet across in the back, you know, you did that, and you slid it over five more, and you had the mark and then you’d run the tape for it. Well, you put the tape down, and I remember one time, I didn’t take it up when we were finished. Next morning, you know, Willie Dahl comes in, “What the heck’s going on with you? You’re too busy to take up your own tape?” I said, “What are you talking about?” I’d be on YOUNG AND RE--… PRICE IS RIGHT, wherever I’m doing. He’d say, “You finish rehearsal, you pull your own tape. Look at this.” And behind his back he’d have this wad of tape. “I had--I’m going back up to work, I had to pull your own tape. Gotta pull your own tape, man.” I went, “God Will, I’m sorry, you’re right, I should’ve done that.” Call box, we can change the call box to go into any studio off of one microphone. Okay, so you know, back in the day when you’d have people on different stages, you could still give them a call, say, “Five minutes,” or, you know, “On stage,” or whatever it was. When your show was finished, you turned it back to that stage. I still do that to this day. Do you think they do on Y & R [THE YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS], and B & B [THE BOLD AND THE BEAUTIFUL]? “You guys,” Willie talking to you. So he was that const-- You know, he gave you a bad time even though it wasn’t a big deal, but it was still professional, professional, professional. [INT: Exactly, he definitely had his routine. Since you brought it up, the taping of the rehearsal hall floor, bending the corners, so that you could pull up one continuous, until you got to a door break. But that was again, was to, not break the corners, ‘cause then when you had to pull it up, you could just roll it.] You’re absolutely right. [INT: It means you can pull--] Yeah, ‘cause you could pull it up with one tape, and you can’t go too fast, ‘cause it’ll rip. “And then you have to get it going again,” you’re right. [INT: That was Willie.] Oh yeah, there was an art to it. And you know, when you haven’t done it in a long time, still, you know, that could be an eight-hour call, just to prep. Excuse me. That could be an eight-hour call, just taping off the rehearsal. [INT: Absolutely.] You know, you’re up and down… So I knew that the last time I did that, I knew as I was walking down the stairs to go home, I could feel my legs shaking a little bit, I went, “What’s going on? Oh yeah!” I’m not used to up and down, and up and down, and up and down, and way down on the floor, and up and down. You know, it’s that next morning you start stretching again a bit. “Why are my thighs, why are my legs so sore? Oh yeah, I taped a floor.”

INT: While we’re on the subject of Willie [Willie Dahl]--[DQ: Willie, right.] Any other Willie--but again, I know you’ve got something about Red Skelton. 

DQ: Right. And so, Willie Dahl, Stage Manager, I think he started out in cue cards. I think he did. [INT: I think you’re right.] And… [INT: He and Barney McNulty I think were some of the earliest cue card guys.] Right. And definitely with THE RED SKELTON SHOW, and he became absolutely personal good friends with Red by the end of the run and so forth. So, and he stage managed, you know, for a good what, if he was on for 17, probably 12, 13 years he, 14 years, he may have stage managed that show. Willie, you know, we didn’t have warm up people back in the day. You know, somebody just, you know, Stage Manager or whatever to have your star come out and say hello to the audience, you know, he’d just go, “Hey everybody, Red Skelton.” And, you know, Red would come out. There were some old--we used to call it Jurassic Park, at CBS, where they’re taking all of the old, old shows, two inch tape, one inch tape, and converting it all for the archives at CBS. Well it was, you know, from the old stuff, so we called it Jurassic Park at CBS. And so I’d get a call from somebody, or send the word up, said, “Doug, you gotta come down to Jurassic Park, we’ve got something to show you.” I’d come down to Jurassic Park, and here’s an old Red Skelton warm up! They rolled tape on the warm up. And there’s Willie being his straight man. Being his straight man all the way. So Willie’s got this, I think it was this loud blue jacket back, you know, ‘60s [1960s] was loud, and god I don’t know what he had, like a, you know, burnt orange pants or something, it was like, god Willie, what were you wearing? And so Red would do his sneeze, and all of his hair would come forward, and Willie and he’s exasperated, walk over to Red, and pull out his comb. And Red would whip his hair back, and comb his hair and so forth, and get it just right. And sneeze again. And you know, they had this whole bit together. They did, and that was the audience warm up, as they’re explaining the show, and Red’s saying hi to everybody and so forth. So Willie was way, you know, way back a good part of that.

DQ: And so now I come in the scene and of course, now, if I might digress, just a little bit here. When I was a page at NBC, RED SKELTON SHOW [THE RED SKELTON SHOW] had been canceled, and Red had a half hour show at NBC. I was Red’s page for that one season, a half hour show, shot on a Saturday. So now Red, of course, many, many years in Vaudeville, and the pratfalls and the whole nine yards, would park in the same place as Johnny parked, same place Leno parks, you know, coming right up the ramp. And I’ve seen Red with his back hurting so much, I’d be there to carry anything in that he needed, first of all, I mean that’s, I’m their page so I’m there to help. So then he’d have to say, you know, I’d carry everything. And he’d have to walk up that ramp backwards, because his back was absolutely killing him. You know, we’ve got a whole day, we’ve got a 12 hour day, or a 15 hour, we’ve gotta rehearse, and shoot, and you know, audience and the whole nine yards. They ordered a doctor, and try to get a massage and so forth. Well, you know with, any time I worked with, you know, Hope [Bob Hope], or Redd Foxx, or Johnny [Johnny Carson] or whatever, I’m in the wings, I’m looking right out on stage, while they’re playing to, you know, their audience and so forth. I’ll never forget when Red was going, he’d laugh, remember he loved his own humor, he’d laugh at his own stuff, and then he’d go, ahaa, and the pain on his face when he stamped his foot for the laugh, he turned and looked at me, and oh, you could read this pain, and then oh, and then he’s smiling by the time he came back to the audience. Oh, his back would just, you know, was worn out. So, when Willie and I would work a show, and we’d go over and have a cup of coffee after the show, across the street, I’d say, “Willie tell me, tell me a Red Skelton stories, tell me,” I wanted to hear all the stories. So he said, “I remember the time,” he said, Red was that consummate clown that, when he played the, you know, I don’t remember if it was Freddie the Freeloader, but he played the bum, and the hobo. [INT: Clem Kadiddlehopper, was that his character?] Yeah, maybe Clem Kadiddlehopper. And we finished rehearsal, and now Red goes, “Okay, before we go to air and so forth,” he goes in to lay down for an hour. You know, so he’ll lay down on the couch, and Willie [Willie Dahl] goes, he knows, you know, how much time he can give him, before he knows he has to get ready, and just, you know, nobody get close to the door, everybody talk softly. Willie took care of Red. So then he said, “The most incredible thing was, Doug, here was the world’s clown at that time,” it was like between he and Emmett Kelly, if you remember Emmett Kelly, but Red was the clown. And he’d open the door, and he’d still be lying in his full make up, asleep, with a cigar still stuck to his lip. Just completely asleep. “Red, Red, you gotta wake up.” Still just, there he was. That’s who he was. He would become those people. [INT: Yeah.]

DQ: Then another time, I said, now Red [Red Skelton] comes from, as did George Burns, and Jack Benny, and all those wonderful, great people I’ve had pleasure of working with over the years, you know, came from Vaudeville, and Vaudeville was, you know, it was a different world. There weren’t ATMs, there weren’t, you know, banking wasn’t all over the country and so forth, so a lot of these people, they carried their own personal stuff in the false bottom of a trunk, and you know, so on and so forth. So, Red would come in, and tell Willie [Willie Dahl] you know, as he’s gonna go out for the first rehearsal, he’d just make Willie crazy. He’d say, “Willie, you know, I’ve got like 60,000 dollars in the briefcase, so kinda keep an eye on it for me.” “Dammit Red, I don’t, why do you bring this to the stage, Red, why do you bring, ahh!” He’d go in and lock that door. And Willie now would be a nervous wreck for the rest of the, he’d say, “Okay is it still here, okay, good.” Oh he’d be a nervous wreck, but Red would have 60,000 dollars in cash. You know, that’s the way he traveled, that was his security, that’s, from old school, and that’s the way he did things. Wonderful guy. [INT: Yeah, I know he had a great relationship… I only started working with Willie, in like 1988, ’89, and then some of the Carol Burnett, but still wore the wristwatch that Red had given him, probably 30, 40 years before, and had some of Red’s clown paintings.] Yes, yes, as do I. As do I. So I became Red’s [Red Skelton] fan when he was doing this half hour little show, which is toward the end of my Stage Man--or excuse me, page career at NBC. So as I’m, you know, appreciating, and now finding this new talent of Red, he would pull in and get in his car. And he drove in from Cathedral City, or Rancho…Palm Springs. And he’d say, I’d say, “Anything I, you know, what’ve you got, da, da, da,” and he’d hand me a cassette tape, and say, “Get this to the Producer, I’ve got a new silent spot.” I’d hand it to the Producer and said, “Here this is from Red, he’s got a new silent spot.” Oh. Prop houses weren’t open, how were they gonna make this new silent, we’ve already written one, he’s already had the script, and on the way in, on his little cassette player, he comes up with a new, in his, looked like a 1936, you know, antique Rolls Royce, which was a mint. I mean, just an unbelievable car, he’d drive in from Palm Springs and have a new thing? A new silent spot? It made everybody crazy. Made everybody crazy.

INT: You were gonna tell me about how Red [THE RED SKELTON SHOW] got canceled? 

DQ: Yeah, this is, this is a tragedy. Now, CBS, he’d been on the air for 17 years I believe. And CBS still didn’t have a commissary. It had the truck, it still had the truck, it was down the ramp and outside, close to where it is. And so the word, back in the day, from some of the stories I’ve heard is when a network show, like Red Skelton would be canceled, well they’d pass the word immediately to like the shop, and so forth, because the networks paid for the sets, and the wood, so they’re saying salvage what you can, and we’ll use it again, you know, on the next set, or the next, you know, show, or…we’ll let YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS have, or you know, whatever, but it’s owned, and so they would, the word would pass from the department heads, that the show’s been canceled, and so forth. So Red has not been told. So he’s doing the show, doing a rehearsal, you know, gonna tape later that day, or the next day. And he’s walking down that big hallway at CBS, where stages are on either side, and he’s gonna go to the truck. And this man comes out, the carpenter comes out of the shop, and goes to Red and says, “Oh Red, I am so sorry to hear your show’s been canceled. I’m just so sorry.” And that’s how he found out he had been canceled after 17 years. Not from Paley [William S. Paley], not from his manager, not from any exec that would come down and sit with him privately in a room with everybody around, and explain why, that’s how he found out. He was very, you know obviously, probably one of the most sensitive human beings in the world, like many of those entertainers are, was devastated. It hurt him to the core. That’s why you have never seen a rerun. He fought them, he fought the Writers, he fought the show. He sued them. He kept them in court. He said, “You’re not going to syndicate, sell, or rerun these shows.” And he meant it, followed through with it. Kept them in court, that’s why you’ve really never seen any of those shows. And he vowed at that time, he would never come back into CBS ever again. Now, we go forward to THE MIKE DOUGLAS SHOW. I get a word, Red Skelton’s gonna be on the show. I said, “You’re kidding.” As soon as I hear that and I can get away, where do you think I go? “Willie, Willie, come here.” Tomorrow, or, I forgot when it’s gonna be, "Red is gonna be on the show. Red’s gonna be on the show.” “All right, fantastic.” So he knows he’s gonna be on the show. So now, Bob Hope has been on the show, Jimmy Stewart, as we mentioned before, Red Buttons, you know, some of the biggest stars in the world. Red comes down. I see 50 to 60 people I’ve never seen before who have come down from the tower to say hi to Red. So this man [Red Skelton], who had had his heart broken, was having it mended. All those people came down that loved him. He remembered all their names. “Alice!” hugs, “Tom!” hugs. It was fantastic. It went on, it went on. Now, sorry. Now I could appreciate the man. Now I could appreciate all those that appreciated him, that knew he got, kinda the raw deal, that knew that, perhaps he didn’t deserve any of this, but it mended his heart. To see this warmth and embracing. So now we get, finally we get the show going, we get Red in place. Don’t forget Willie Dahl, he’s lurking around here. [INT: That’s what I wanna hear.] Where’s, where’s Willie? “So, ladies and gentlemen Red Skelton,” standing ovation. We start to get into the show, and all of a sudden, there’s this loud hammering backstage. You know, Willie came up to me and says, “Where’s a hammer, I need a hammer, where’s a hammer?” I said, “Willie, what do you need a hammer for, we’re right in the middle of the show.” “I need a hammer.” So he scrounges around backstage, grabs a hammer, and while Mike’s interviewing him, he starts pounding on this wood, bam, bam, bam. Mike’s face turns into, of all times, who could be hammering now, I’ve got Red, he wasn’t coming into this network and here he his, ba ba ba. Red has his line, “Too late now, if it’s not built, we’re already on the air.” They already have their lines. Willie’s doing the hammering to set his buddy Red up. And then Mike kinda realized, you know, well either that’s Red’s like that, or you know, he doesn’t realize that it’s a prank now that, you know, a gig that these two guys have. So, it was wonderful having him back. [INT: What year was that? Well, Mike Douglas was…] Late ‘70s [1970s] maybe. Late ‘70s. But oh boy, those two were so close.